If you own a house that was built in the 1900s in Boise, Idaho… or elsewhere for that matter, then you’ll really want to read this before getting new floors. Trust me… You’ll wish you knew this first.
Would it bust your chops to spend $10,000+ on beautiful new floors throughout your house to only come away with hearing squeak after squeak when you walked from room to room?
Here are the points this article will discuss:
- Why you should never trust the salesman or installer when they tell you that the squeaks won’t make it through the new floor.
- Where do the squeaks originate?
- The solution to not hearing the squeaks in the new floor
- What the solution is not to hearing squeaks in the new floor
- Why you should never be pressed for time to have the installation done if there is more to be prepped
- Ripping out the old to make place for the new
- Matching the old floor’s height
- Keep this is mind before new floors are installed
- Questions to ask/Things to know
1. Why you should never trust the salesman or installer when or if they tell you that you won’t hear any squeaks after the new floor is installed.
This is just flat out… not true. Even if there is a cork underlayment of some type that goes down before your new floor, when any amount of substantial weight crosses a loose subfloor board, you’re going to hear the cry… the squeak that if not handled pre new floors, will likely squeak for all eternity and you will ask yourself why the heck didn’t they fix that.
I agree… why are floor companies not usually fixing the floors, tightening the subfloor down before putting down the new and very expensive floors.
A couple reasons come to mind, and it unfortunately falls on 1. Bad craftsmanship. It seems that no one cares these days. And 2. The attitude of, “Let’s get in and out of here as fast as we can.”
Believe me… it is this way across all construction… Get in and get out, collect a check and go. Note: It is especially prevalent when a finish carpenter comes in and has to hang doors and add trim/baseboard… they see the worst of the worst builders whose only concern is collecting a paycheck.
So, why not trust the salesman or installer if they tell you that you likely won’t hear any squeaks with this add your floor type here. You should not trust them because they too, just want to make the sale, and get in, collect, and get and out.
Are they all like this?
No. I’m sure there are some good salesmen and installers out there, but few and far between. First thing to notice… Have they asked you about any areas of the floor that squeak? Or have they walked the floor in question and tried to find any squeaks?
If not… then you’ll have to decide what you want to listen to after the thousands of dollars you are spending. Don’t expect any installers to remove your old floors, tighten up any planks boards/old subfloor, and then add a new plywood subfloor atop the planks (If height is right with new floor) if you haven’t seen it as a part of your estimate. If it’s not in the estimate, it’s not included in the job.
- Where do the squeaks originate?
The squeaks are the old nails in the old subfloor (the floor beneath your exposed floor) that have loosened over time. Anytime weight crosses over the loose nail it is compressed and then released which makes the wood subfloor ride up the nail and create a squeak.
- The solution to not hearing squeaks in the new floor is to expose the subfloor, and re-screw it with at least 4” screws (DO NOT USE NAILS) which tighten the subfloor to the top of the joists. (Joists are crossmembers of plywood that your subfloor was nailed to) Then, depending on the type of the old flooring (for our example we’ll use the type that looks like a basketball court, but may have been stained) and the new floor (Often a manufactured floor that might be ¼” thick) you may have to add a sheet of CDX plywood and screw it to the old subfloor to make up the height difference between new and old… which is often times about ½ – ¾”.
When your CDX plywood is screwed (Not Nailed) to the old, newly re-screwed subfloor, you will have two tight subfloors that make for peace and quiet with every step you take. (Trust me… I know from personal experience and is why I am writing this article)
- What the solution is not to hearing squeaks in the new floor
The solution to not hearing is not the same as the solution to not hearing…
Make sense?
I didn’t think so.
Beware the installer or guy who tells you they can just shoot a couple nails or screws into each squeak and tighten it up.
Sure… maybe this works for a couple of squeaks… but what about the other 1000 nails that were shot into your subfloor when it was first laid?
That’s right… you could be setting up for future new squeaks as those nails loosen over time.
- Why you should never be pressed for time to have the installation done if there is more to be prepped
You read that last bit of #3 in the parenthesis where I asked you to trust me? I had done most of the aforementioned process at my own home and the installers were due in another day. I was told the lie that I would likely not hear anything through the new floors. I could literally kick myself for not asking them to reschedule my floor installation so I could finish prepping my last two rooms and hall.
It was my first time ever having new floors installed so I listened to those who I thought were professionals telling me the truth. Luckily I had completed the rest of my house: living room, kitchen, den…
At some point, I will have to maneuver myself in my tiny crawlspace and have my spouse step on the floors until I can pinpoint the squeak and fix it from beneath. An undesirable step that is timely and costly.
- Ripping out the old to make place for the new
If you have decided to remove the old floors in order to tighten up the subfloor and add new CDX plywood, the task is relatively simple, but also physical and dusty.
Depending on the layout of your home, furniture should be completely removed from each room as it is about to be re-sub floored. Cutting sections of the old floor in order to pry it up and remove it from the subfloor does create sawdust and exit areas that are not being worked on, such as the front half of house, should have a plastic film/curtain separating the back from the front. The goal is to mitigate dust from traveling everywhere throughout the house.
As for moving the furniture, if you are not able, you might have a few friends who can help or perhaps call a local moving company and ask if they offer this particular service. They might even be able to store your furniture for you if that interests you.
- Matching the old floor’s height
This really is a no brainer. If your old basketball style flooring is ¾” height, and your new floor is ¼” height, then the difference will need to be addressed. You may need CDX Plywood that is only ½” thickness. Your salesman or installer should be able to tell you which size sheet of CDX plywood you will need.
Note: CDX plywood has a smooth side and a knotted side. Always lay the knotted side of the CDX on the subfloor.
- Keep this is mind before new floors are installed
Originally, in order to get into my crawlspace, one must be a contortionist. I asked the installers if they could create a lid for access into my crawlspace. I needed two, one in the master bedroom closet, and the other in the laundry room. Each place was specific so I could easily drop down into the crawlspace, and either be near to the plumbing of the master bath, or at the other end of the house near all of the kitchen and laundry utilities. (No more trying to contort)
The one thing I did have to do before they could make the crawlspace doors was to cut away a portion of the subfloor, create a small frame that sits on the joists below and is high enough to allow the crawlspace lid to sit at grade (regular floor height).
Note: It is best to hide your lid/crawlspace door in a closet or perhaps beneath a dryer. Yes, you might have to move a dryer for access, but the ease in which you can access the crawlspace makes it worth the added cost… if they charge you for it or not. (For me, they did not charge extra to create the door, but I did have to build the frame)
- Questions to ask/Things to know
Depending on the size of your house and work being performed you can ask the installer if they can break the job up into two or three parts. In our case, we wanted them to do the back of the house and part of the front, but we were scheduled for a remodel of the kitchen area and so a certain section would not be ready until a couple walls were removed to create an open concept. When the walls were gone and we knew where the whole would need to be created for the drainpipes, the installers came back to finish the kitchen area.
Note: If doing a remodel in the kitchen, know the height of your island and/or cabinets. You may want the island and cabinets to be on top of the new floor v. building the floor around them.
Another question… and it is important.. Are the installers using any new employees who are being trained? I know this doesn’t happen a lot, but we had three employees of the installer. Two had been laying floor for 15+ years. The newbie was left alone for 10 minutes and placed a short unsightly floorboard in a place surrounded by other unmatched longer boards, and it was so obvious an error that one of the pros had to fix it. And… like a pro, he removed the piece and added a board that matched in color.
Last questions… Have you thought through the process for your floors? Can you incur the added expense of removing old floors, tightening down subfloors and adding new CDX plywood?
If you can, but you can’t do the work yourself, Pretty It Up in Idaho can perform this task for you. Call for a walkthrough and free estimate. To have such a nice home improvement like new floors, and to hear any squeaking after spending thousands of hard earned dollars… that’s just not right… it’s unprofessional. Visit our website or contact us if you have any question or need a helping hand. Pretty It Up in Idaho 208-488-0535 “We do it right, or don’t do it at all.”